Regarding your point about rainbows being erroneously associated with gayness, part of the reason for it is that The Wizard of Oz used to be a very important movie to the persecuted LGBT community of previous times because they also dreamed of being "somewhere over the rainbow" (where it was normal to be weird), and to gay men in particular because they identified with the cowardly lion. A gay man was even known as "a friend of Dorothy" at one point.
With that in mind, I rewatched the scene where Dorothy meets the cowardly lion and I found it quite remarkable that the first thing she says to him after smacking him in the face for his initially beastly behaviour is: "Shame on you!"
This is idiotic. Everybody is bisexual. You know that. I worked on a farm and the bulls would have sex with each other. I don't think the cows were like, "MOOOOOOO!?!?!?!?"
not everything is a philosophical and ethical jigsaw puzzle for you to solve. the point of politics is to empower interest groups, not reason our way to ascending the human condition through radical empathy or whatever the fuck ur snorting
Was reading this shaking my head, and then I re-read the title "It Should Really be Shame Month," and realised I'm bisexual and I am ashamed about it. Fuck you Max making me feel bad and sh
I SAW A GOOD POST FROM @BLOWN_THROUGH on XITTER re:cently which was like "there's no such thing as confrontational art, just art abrasive enough 2 make an or/dience comfortably feel that they have been confronted" and I was like hells yeah that's totally hella totes tru. Ugh, I don't rlly recall how this was related 2 ur article because I read It like a few days ago.
[REREAD, FOLLOWING THIS MSG, PRECEEDJNG THE FOLLOWING TXT]
[ADDENDUM,
ALSO PRIOR 2 REREADING,
Love u btw!!!!!!]
YEAH, uhhhh SPOOKERS² gonna SPOOK! SPOOK themselves 2oo ofc. No prog/LGBT can go 2 a pride thing w/o finding SOMETHING which grazes them, EVEN IF ITS JUST LIKE THEMSELVES!!!, but by [i]tolerating[/i] and [i]accepting³[/i] the thing they raise the bar 4 what conservatives must [i]T&A⁴[/i]. BIG PROBLEM! VOTE IT UP!
1 - plus duae
2 - MAX STIRNER WORD
3 - THE MORE THEY HATE ANTI-PRIDE-PEEPS, THE LOWER THEIR STANDARDS 4 SELF-ASCRIBED TOLERANCE AND ACCEPTANCE BECAUSE ANYTNING OTHER THAN EXTREME SPITE LOOKS CHILL BY COMPARISON
4 - unfortunately, THE LOWERED STANDARDS of [3] ONLY APPLY TO SELF-ASCRIPTIONS, THE STANDARDS ANTI-PRIDE-PEEPS MUST MEET ONLY RISE WITH THE HATRED PRIDE-PEEPS DIREXT AT THEM, and vice versa ofc
This is what I want to convey to my fellow lolicon who try to normalize loli by trying to separate it from pedophilia as much as possible. That addresses the moral and legal issues, but not the disgust factor. At a certain point you just have to admit that these ideas and fantasies are weird.
I think this is a key issue with Democratic messaging and has served as a wedge to drive voters to the right. It’s not so much the message or policies that they espouse, but the saccharine, condescending, patronizing way they rule by fiat from ivory towers. The messaging is also typically very morally loaded. You don’t just disagree; you are a bad person doing bad things. This is a recipe for opposition—it stifles conversation which acts as a vent for emotions and a tool for collaboration, and causes consternation and frustration in those who feel silenced or ignored or looked down upon, driving them to other parties. Particularly if they lack the education, jargon, or platform to express their point of view.
I think this has fueled the rise of anti-intellectualism and anti-establishment views on the right. Sometimes it’s important to call a spade a spade, and give others the latitude and trust to do so as well, even if you think spades are harmful.
Damn, people really think this is spicy, huh? I'd have hoped this would be the natural conclusion to come to without social pressure from political activists informing your views, but there is also personal trauma to account for. Emotional abuse victims often become the instruments of further repression in their fevered attempts to control their narrative. I'm bisexual and I appreciate you putting this out there, it resonates with me in a way that toxic positivity and virtue signaling is incapable of.
It still seems easy to categorise as morally neutral though. It being a biological error is only significant to people who want to have faith in a simpler reason of existence — so maybe Shame Month should only be for those people, including the gays among them.
“Knowing what a disappointment you are to your cold father, yet deciding to sink your face into another woman’s snatch anyway” — this doesn’t evoke something like pride to you? It does to me. I feel pride when I betray my parents. Maybe “glory” is a better word (maybe it should be called Glory Month), but pride feels right, too.
I don’t necessarily think pride needs to rest on normality, and I agree that the shift from “It’s okay to be abnormal” to “It’s normal to be abnormal” is problematic (though in a sense it is normal to be abnormal in some way or another).
I do think being gay is weird in some of the ways you mentioned, but not by virtue of rarity — my sense is that it is incredibly common, though maybe this depends on what sense of the word “gay” we are using. Living your life as primarily gay, settling down with a same-sex partner or having many consistently same-sex partners — sure, that’s fairly rare. But having some gay experiences? Having gay attractions and interests and fixations? I know these latter forms of gayness apply even to you, and I suspect they apply to a great many more people than would admit it (to others or themselves). I actually think they apply to some extent to all people, but I think they also apply to a large extent to a lot of people.
Hm. I think this is hard to respond to because everyone's thoughts and feelings around homosexuality are different. Being slightly familiar with how you talk about this stuff, I'm guessing you are not actually condemning homosexual behavior, though most people would read this and think that you are. I personally have had an extremely high exposure to homosexuals, so I don't actually find it weird. I don't find it gross. I am uncomfortable witnessing sexual acts between other people whether it's hetero or homo or something else, which is why I can't stomach seeing porn. But a happy couple holding pinkies walking down the street or rubbing noses or smooching on a set of stairs? How cute.
It's ok for you to feel disgusted, and uncomfortable around gay stuff. Is that why you made this post? That you feel judged for being disgusted by gay stuff even though you don't wish to interfere with gay people's lives or activities?
I think the pride parade and rainbows and "normalization" are attempts to lift the shame and make people who have felt bad and been treated bad for being gay feel welcomed in society instead. I don't think it's meant to be as deep as you're reading into it. Yeah sex can be gross, but that's why we want to show people it's ok to be who they are. Because we're all a little pervy, and that's ok as long as we all treat each other with respect.
Oh wow. What happened to you? I mean, I know what happened to you, but I swear you weren’t this “heretical” before. Except of course you are in no sense a heretic, absurdly using the cover provided to you by being run off god knows how many platforms just to be nothing but a taut string on a second fiddle, gladly, fixedly resonating to the poundingly loud current ORTHODOX whinge of hate. I mean, you used to challenge the most well funded narratives. Were you just a pointless contrarian that whole time, and I’ve been too stupid to see it? Now it’s just a less polished regurgitation of Fascism Inc™’s most tedious toxic takes.
I feel more shame over my past defense of you than of all the delicious booty cheeks I seek to clap. Perhaps like me you should stick to the black holes. Twat
The feelings of one loser, whether that be myself or Max, actually aren’t the point, Batu boy. It’s about the arguments, the policy, the vibes, the ‘takes’. Let me ELIFascist for you. I didn’t say I was proud; in fact, I was saying “normalise Gay shame month” long before I ever read his piss-poor excuse for a blog post (and the bar there is low). I think there’s some mileage there, conflicted as I am, and I remember a version of Max who would have examined it in a unique, humorous, inevitably provocative way but above all in a way that would actually seem to move the conversation along. You know: progress, dialogue. Seeing as we’re powerless to prevent Armageddon, we might as well pretend like intellectual intercourse might take us anywhere that isn’t this particular cultural moment.
My ideal world is where nobody would give a shit about what consenting adults do privately and the odd public show of affection. I don’t, or didn’t like the ostentatiousness of Pride at all. However, as reality begins to complete its transition to nightmare (and is doing a great job of passing IMO, go queen!) over the last few years, I now understand, or rather remember the need for it. It’s still at heart a protest against the steamroller of “Conservatism” but aided and abetted by shitheads like Max who would like society to prioritise his fee-fees above all.
He wants to vomit because he tortures himself by having a non-stop gay porno flick playing in his mind? Well, as long as we’re playing this game of feelings over facts, my emetic response is triggered by reading someone I formerly had respect for smuggle genocide denial and apologetics for the ultra-terrorist blood merchant Israel/US/UK praxis of evil into an otherwise humdrum bit of Nazi bigotry and reality denial (nature is gay and full of them too).
Well, for a start, it’s not conservative to toss and turn at night visualising gay sex and then decide to try and limit the freedoms of other people, or really anything that wouldn’t be taking responsibility for one’s own mind perhaps. No, not conservatism: if it oppresses like fascism, talks like fascism, is pathetic and cringe to the very core like fascism, then it’s fascism.
More people would have lukewarm beliefs if they were honest with their ability to understand complex issues. But information warfare dictates that everyone must take a hard stance on things they know nothing about. So they attack their opponents with prepackaged cliches and pretend to be informed.
Regarding your point about rainbows being erroneously associated with gayness, part of the reason for it is that The Wizard of Oz used to be a very important movie to the persecuted LGBT community of previous times because they also dreamed of being "somewhere over the rainbow" (where it was normal to be weird), and to gay men in particular because they identified with the cowardly lion. A gay man was even known as "a friend of Dorothy" at one point.
With that in mind, I rewatched the scene where Dorothy meets the cowardly lion and I found it quite remarkable that the first thing she says to him after smacking him in the face for his initially beastly behaviour is: "Shame on you!"
This is idiotic. Everybody is bisexual. You know that. I worked on a farm and the bulls would have sex with each other. I don't think the cows were like, "MOOOOOOO!?!?!?!?"
not everything is a philosophical and ethical jigsaw puzzle for you to solve. the point of politics is to empower interest groups, not reason our way to ascending the human condition through radical empathy or whatever the fuck ur snorting
sorry that was insensitive. its people like you that glue our society together. i do myself an injustice being mean
Was reading this shaking my head, and then I re-read the title "It Should Really be Shame Month," and realised I'm bisexual and I am ashamed about it. Fuck you Max making me feel bad and sh
HAPPY SHAME MONTH¹!!!!!
I SAW A GOOD POST FROM @BLOWN_THROUGH on XITTER re:cently which was like "there's no such thing as confrontational art, just art abrasive enough 2 make an or/dience comfortably feel that they have been confronted" and I was like hells yeah that's totally hella totes tru. Ugh, I don't rlly recall how this was related 2 ur article because I read It like a few days ago.
[REREAD, FOLLOWING THIS MSG, PRECEEDJNG THE FOLLOWING TXT]
[ADDENDUM,
ALSO PRIOR 2 REREADING,
Love u btw!!!!!!]
YEAH, uhhhh SPOOKERS² gonna SPOOK! SPOOK themselves 2oo ofc. No prog/LGBT can go 2 a pride thing w/o finding SOMETHING which grazes them, EVEN IF ITS JUST LIKE THEMSELVES!!!, but by [i]tolerating[/i] and [i]accepting³[/i] the thing they raise the bar 4 what conservatives must [i]T&A⁴[/i]. BIG PROBLEM! VOTE IT UP!
1 - plus duae
2 - MAX STIRNER WORD
3 - THE MORE THEY HATE ANTI-PRIDE-PEEPS, THE LOWER THEIR STANDARDS 4 SELF-ASCRIBED TOLERANCE AND ACCEPTANCE BECAUSE ANYTNING OTHER THAN EXTREME SPITE LOOKS CHILL BY COMPARISON
4 - unfortunately, THE LOWERED STANDARDS of [3] ONLY APPLY TO SELF-ASCRIPTIONS, THE STANDARDS ANTI-PRIDE-PEEPS MUST MEET ONLY RISE WITH THE HATRED PRIDE-PEEPS DIREXT AT THEM, and vice versa ofc
"Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. Through humility is the only antidote to shame" -Uncle Iroh
This is what I want to convey to my fellow lolicon who try to normalize loli by trying to separate it from pedophilia as much as possible. That addresses the moral and legal issues, but not the disgust factor. At a certain point you just have to admit that these ideas and fantasies are weird.
I think this is a key issue with Democratic messaging and has served as a wedge to drive voters to the right. It’s not so much the message or policies that they espouse, but the saccharine, condescending, patronizing way they rule by fiat from ivory towers. The messaging is also typically very morally loaded. You don’t just disagree; you are a bad person doing bad things. This is a recipe for opposition—it stifles conversation which acts as a vent for emotions and a tool for collaboration, and causes consternation and frustration in those who feel silenced or ignored or looked down upon, driving them to other parties. Particularly if they lack the education, jargon, or platform to express their point of view.
I think this has fueled the rise of anti-intellectualism and anti-establishment views on the right. Sometimes it’s important to call a spade a spade, and give others the latitude and trust to do so as well, even if you think spades are harmful.
Both the left, the right and the center can be wrong.
Damn, people really think this is spicy, huh? I'd have hoped this would be the natural conclusion to come to without social pressure from political activists informing your views, but there is also personal trauma to account for. Emotional abuse victims often become the instruments of further repression in their fevered attempts to control their narrative. I'm bisexual and I appreciate you putting this out there, it resonates with me in a way that toxic positivity and virtue signaling is incapable of.
It still seems easy to categorise as morally neutral though. It being a biological error is only significant to people who want to have faith in a simpler reason of existence — so maybe Shame Month should only be for those people, including the gays among them.
Had a really difficult discussion with my wife about this piece. I hope she doesn't feel less of me.
“Knowing what a disappointment you are to your cold father, yet deciding to sink your face into another woman’s snatch anyway” — this doesn’t evoke something like pride to you? It does to me. I feel pride when I betray my parents. Maybe “glory” is a better word (maybe it should be called Glory Month), but pride feels right, too.
I don’t necessarily think pride needs to rest on normality, and I agree that the shift from “It’s okay to be abnormal” to “It’s normal to be abnormal” is problematic (though in a sense it is normal to be abnormal in some way or another).
I do think being gay is weird in some of the ways you mentioned, but not by virtue of rarity — my sense is that it is incredibly common, though maybe this depends on what sense of the word “gay” we are using. Living your life as primarily gay, settling down with a same-sex partner or having many consistently same-sex partners — sure, that’s fairly rare. But having some gay experiences? Having gay attractions and interests and fixations? I know these latter forms of gayness apply even to you, and I suspect they apply to a great many more people than would admit it (to others or themselves). I actually think they apply to some extent to all people, but I think they also apply to a large extent to a lot of people.
Hm. I think this is hard to respond to because everyone's thoughts and feelings around homosexuality are different. Being slightly familiar with how you talk about this stuff, I'm guessing you are not actually condemning homosexual behavior, though most people would read this and think that you are. I personally have had an extremely high exposure to homosexuals, so I don't actually find it weird. I don't find it gross. I am uncomfortable witnessing sexual acts between other people whether it's hetero or homo or something else, which is why I can't stomach seeing porn. But a happy couple holding pinkies walking down the street or rubbing noses or smooching on a set of stairs? How cute.
It's ok for you to feel disgusted, and uncomfortable around gay stuff. Is that why you made this post? That you feel judged for being disgusted by gay stuff even though you don't wish to interfere with gay people's lives or activities?
I think the pride parade and rainbows and "normalization" are attempts to lift the shame and make people who have felt bad and been treated bad for being gay feel welcomed in society instead. I don't think it's meant to be as deep as you're reading into it. Yeah sex can be gross, but that's why we want to show people it's ok to be who they are. Because we're all a little pervy, and that's ok as long as we all treat each other with respect.
Oh wow. What happened to you? I mean, I know what happened to you, but I swear you weren’t this “heretical” before. Except of course you are in no sense a heretic, absurdly using the cover provided to you by being run off god knows how many platforms just to be nothing but a taut string on a second fiddle, gladly, fixedly resonating to the poundingly loud current ORTHODOX whinge of hate. I mean, you used to challenge the most well funded narratives. Were you just a pointless contrarian that whole time, and I’ve been too stupid to see it? Now it’s just a less polished regurgitation of Fascism Inc™’s most tedious toxic takes.
I feel more shame over my past defense of you than of all the delicious booty cheeks I seek to clap. Perhaps like me you should stick to the black holes. Twat
You seriously think mrgirl is an anti-gay fascist now? Did we read the same post?
The feelings of one loser, whether that be myself or Max, actually aren’t the point, Batu boy. It’s about the arguments, the policy, the vibes, the ‘takes’. Let me ELIFascist for you. I didn’t say I was proud; in fact, I was saying “normalise Gay shame month” long before I ever read his piss-poor excuse for a blog post (and the bar there is low). I think there’s some mileage there, conflicted as I am, and I remember a version of Max who would have examined it in a unique, humorous, inevitably provocative way but above all in a way that would actually seem to move the conversation along. You know: progress, dialogue. Seeing as we’re powerless to prevent Armageddon, we might as well pretend like intellectual intercourse might take us anywhere that isn’t this particular cultural moment.
My ideal world is where nobody would give a shit about what consenting adults do privately and the odd public show of affection. I don’t, or didn’t like the ostentatiousness of Pride at all. However, as reality begins to complete its transition to nightmare (and is doing a great job of passing IMO, go queen!) over the last few years, I now understand, or rather remember the need for it. It’s still at heart a protest against the steamroller of “Conservatism” but aided and abetted by shitheads like Max who would like society to prioritise his fee-fees above all.
He wants to vomit because he tortures himself by having a non-stop gay porno flick playing in his mind? Well, as long as we’re playing this game of feelings over facts, my emetic response is triggered by reading someone I formerly had respect for smuggle genocide denial and apologetics for the ultra-terrorist blood merchant Israel/US/UK praxis of evil into an otherwise humdrum bit of Nazi bigotry and reality denial (nature is gay and full of them too).
Well, for a start, it’s not conservative to toss and turn at night visualising gay sex and then decide to try and limit the freedoms of other people, or really anything that wouldn’t be taking responsibility for one’s own mind perhaps. No, not conservatism: if it oppresses like fascism, talks like fascism, is pathetic and cringe to the very core like fascism, then it’s fascism.
tl;dr: And you can fuck off too, Batu
Your comment kinda proves his point, no? You seem insecure rather than proud.
More people would have lukewarm beliefs if they were honest with their ability to understand complex issues. But information warfare dictates that everyone must take a hard stance on things they know nothing about. So they attack their opponents with prepackaged cliches and pretend to be informed.