Dude, you’re one of the most hostile people I’ve ever seen. I’ll follow your advice about not being mean to people right after I finish reading this vegetarian cookbook by Jeffrey Dahmer.
It's not mutilation though. Just surgeries that make their lives better, as countless studies showed. You've probably seen them but disbelieved.
It's sad to me. I never had any problem with accepting life choices of trans people, and I have known many of them for many years, so I had the opportunity to see their transition and overall betterment. There's really no reason to demonize all that, Max. They're fine. Don't worry about them. They know what's good for them.
Yes, I know, from your The Gender Narrative video, for example. I just don't get why all that data we have at hand can still be not enough. I hope you come around someday.
See, the thing is, I HAVE come around. I have been studying trans issues since early 90s, and I had a very different view of them back then. But through the years I have read many articles and books on the subject, plus I've met a ton of trans people, and talked to neurologists/geneticists/embryologists, and I changed my opinion to a much more informed one. And absolutely not because of some "pressure" to do so: I live in Poland, which is a very transphobic, homophobic and catholic country (those three things always go together), so that process was very private and independent. There's really nothing scary about those things, Max.
I have this general problem with the progressive mindset:
Shame gets misapplied and therfore shame is bad. The same is true with violence.
Progressives seem to take these sort of mind numbingly reductive positions about societal level and individual well being like they understand how these systems work when no one really does. I wish we could all be honest about that...
Now let me be reductive 😁:
If you don't think being trans is a mental illness it may be your duty to shame them if you disagree with it, otherwise it could be bigotry. If you think being trans is a mental illness and you shame them for it, it is probably bigotry. The hateful kind too.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with an individual being trans, but there may be something wrong with a society not only accepting it, but encouraging it. Not recognizing or accepting someones gender identity would be a form of shame. Encouraging cis/straight over trans/gay is a form of shame. I would say the reverse of that is true as well. It is impossible for shame to be bad in its entirety and if someone is shaming you for who you are, it is you duty, if you believe what you are doing is true, to not let their shame change your position.
The fundamental mistake you are making here, Max, is taking the claims of TERFs at face value. There are certainly some Feminist women who have expressed TERF adjacent ideas from a place of genuine concern and understanding. JK Rowling for instance.
The problem is: most of those women do not self-identify ad TERFs. As for the ones who do, self-identified TERFdom has become a gathering place for the worst elements of the anti-sex league, SCUM Manifesto, political Lesbian, man-hating, misanderist wing of Feminism (which we don't like to talk about, but it does exist). I think their behavior is best understood as a combination of:
1. They actually ARE rationalizing a disgust response. A disgust response to Men. You see this a lot with anti-sex work Feminists. (Enough that I think the Venn diagram between Sex-Negative Feminists and TERFs is a circle) They describe Prostitution even in above board, legal institutions in such a way that it's clear they are projecting. They hate Men. They hate men so much that they cannot understand, even in the abstract, how a Woman would ever willingly have sex with a man, much less enjoy the experience.
And
2. To a significant degree, I think many of the public faces of TERFdom draw validation from the primal screams of rage they get from Trans-Affirming Feminists. "If they are trying this hard to stop me, I MUST BE RIGHT."
I think you're lumping them all together and writing them off in the same way my essay is asking people not to do. But also I'm not writing these pieces because I expect everyone to suddenly change their minds, so "they aren't going to listen to you" is cynically dismissing the importance of encouraging empathy regardless of how likely it is to work. It's even more important to say if it's unlikely to be listened to.
Actually the main problem with your argument is that conservatives are just wrong on this issue. Reality at the highest, most abstract, ontological level can never be either/or, male/female. It always has to be both/and or neither/nor. Even when an either/or pattern presents itself in nature, that's just an idea or definition you have which can be changed, where the biological "roles" of male and female are more like waves you can go down instead of particles you can be stuck as---and any hard distinction is culturally arbitrary, whether it be sex or gender not really mattering.
It is disingenuous to switch to a PhD in Philosophy level of abstraction only when speaking about trans people and never any other time you discuss anything. The clear motivation is to appease trans people by contorting one's worldview, even if you can find a technically sound argument for doing so. The dichotomy of male and female is super useful, even to people who make this argument, even (and maybe especially) to trans people themselves.
My argument applies practically because it's the only way to move humanity to a world that's not based on delusional biological-sex roleplaying, like "I'm a man, therefore I necessarily have all these characteristics" or "I'm a woman, therefore I necessarily have all these characteristics." With that it gets exacerbated that firmly dividing humanity into those two narrow bands is limiting, when there's obvious insane blurring between them just through natural expression.
You're just uncomfortable with the idea of your parents saying it's perfectly okay for you to have your penis cut off, if you really want it to be.
But that individual fear shouldn't prevent humans from being free to naturally express, whether or not that means tinkering with biology using hormones or the extreme measure of removing the energetically main signal of maleness, the penis.
When I see how horrifically mean and unempathetic many TERFs and gender critics are, I wonder if we even deserve to win the ideological battle. It’s certainly no wonder that we’re not. I still think we can, though, as long as we foster more of the kind of mentality displayed in this piece.
Well put. I still struggle on how to approach the issue as gender critical leaning feminist. Any attempt to nuance the issue has me walking on eggshells in the leftist circles I used to frequent.
Wtf! I thought you said that picture looked nothing like you! That said, I really appreciated this essay.
I don't know why it didn't occur to me to ask if you want credit for generating it--do you? It was you, right? Or were you just talking about it?
It was me. I don't want credit, it's all good. As long as you admit it looks just like you 😅
I admit it looks like me.
Hahaha I was wondering if you were going to say something about this.
Dude, you’re one of the most hostile people I’ve ever seen. I’ll follow your advice about not being mean to people right after I finish reading this vegetarian cookbook by Jeffrey Dahmer.
So do you consider trans people to be "mentally ill"?
My point is that the people who are mean to trans people consider them mentally ill.
I consider people who mutilate their bodies mentally ill, so generally yes, although not all trans-identifying people do that.
It's not mutilation though. Just surgeries that make their lives better, as countless studies showed. You've probably seen them but disbelieved.
It's sad to me. I never had any problem with accepting life choices of trans people, and I have known many of them for many years, so I had the opportunity to see their transition and overall betterment. There's really no reason to demonize all that, Max. They're fine. Don't worry about them. They know what's good for them.
This is not convincing to me, as I'm sure you know.
Yes, I know, from your The Gender Narrative video, for example. I just don't get why all that data we have at hand can still be not enough. I hope you come around someday.
I hope YOU come around someday.
Yeah, I was expecting that answer.
See, the thing is, I HAVE come around. I have been studying trans issues since early 90s, and I had a very different view of them back then. But through the years I have read many articles and books on the subject, plus I've met a ton of trans people, and talked to neurologists/geneticists/embryologists, and I changed my opinion to a much more informed one. And absolutely not because of some "pressure" to do so: I live in Poland, which is a very transphobic, homophobic and catholic country (those three things always go together), so that process was very private and independent. There's really nothing scary about those things, Max.
Good article. Thanks for writing it.
I have this general problem with the progressive mindset:
Shame gets misapplied and therfore shame is bad. The same is true with violence.
Progressives seem to take these sort of mind numbingly reductive positions about societal level and individual well being like they understand how these systems work when no one really does. I wish we could all be honest about that...
Now let me be reductive 😁:
If you don't think being trans is a mental illness it may be your duty to shame them if you disagree with it, otherwise it could be bigotry. If you think being trans is a mental illness and you shame them for it, it is probably bigotry. The hateful kind too.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with an individual being trans, but there may be something wrong with a society not only accepting it, but encouraging it. Not recognizing or accepting someones gender identity would be a form of shame. Encouraging cis/straight over trans/gay is a form of shame. I would say the reverse of that is true as well. It is impossible for shame to be bad in its entirety and if someone is shaming you for who you are, it is you duty, if you believe what you are doing is true, to not let their shame change your position.
Reposting with better grammar.
The fundamental mistake you are making here, Max, is taking the claims of TERFs at face value. There are certainly some Feminist women who have expressed TERF adjacent ideas from a place of genuine concern and understanding. JK Rowling for instance.
The problem is: most of those women do not self-identify ad TERFs. As for the ones who do, self-identified TERFdom has become a gathering place for the worst elements of the anti-sex league, SCUM Manifesto, political Lesbian, man-hating, misanderist wing of Feminism (which we don't like to talk about, but it does exist). I think their behavior is best understood as a combination of:
1. They actually ARE rationalizing a disgust response. A disgust response to Men. You see this a lot with anti-sex work Feminists. (Enough that I think the Venn diagram between Sex-Negative Feminists and TERFs is a circle) They describe Prostitution even in above board, legal institutions in such a way that it's clear they are projecting. They hate Men. They hate men so much that they cannot understand, even in the abstract, how a Woman would ever willingly have sex with a man, much less enjoy the experience.
And
2. To a significant degree, I think many of the public faces of TERFdom draw validation from the primal screams of rage they get from Trans-Affirming Feminists. "If they are trying this hard to stop me, I MUST BE RIGHT."
They aren't going to listen to you.
I think you're lumping them all together and writing them off in the same way my essay is asking people not to do. But also I'm not writing these pieces because I expect everyone to suddenly change their minds, so "they aren't going to listen to you" is cynically dismissing the importance of encouraging empathy regardless of how likely it is to work. It's even more important to say if it's unlikely to be listened to.
Actually the main problem with your argument is that conservatives are just wrong on this issue. Reality at the highest, most abstract, ontological level can never be either/or, male/female. It always has to be both/and or neither/nor. Even when an either/or pattern presents itself in nature, that's just an idea or definition you have which can be changed, where the biological "roles" of male and female are more like waves you can go down instead of particles you can be stuck as---and any hard distinction is culturally arbitrary, whether it be sex or gender not really mattering.
It is disingenuous to switch to a PhD in Philosophy level of abstraction only when speaking about trans people and never any other time you discuss anything. The clear motivation is to appease trans people by contorting one's worldview, even if you can find a technically sound argument for doing so. The dichotomy of male and female is super useful, even to people who make this argument, even (and maybe especially) to trans people themselves.
Additionally I'm really intensely attracted to your soul.
Your body is well made, but not sexually attractive to me.
Your soul, on the other hand . . .
My argument applies practically because it's the only way to move humanity to a world that's not based on delusional biological-sex roleplaying, like "I'm a man, therefore I necessarily have all these characteristics" or "I'm a woman, therefore I necessarily have all these characteristics." With that it gets exacerbated that firmly dividing humanity into those two narrow bands is limiting, when there's obvious insane blurring between them just through natural expression.
You're just uncomfortable with the idea of your parents saying it's perfectly okay for you to have your penis cut off, if you really want it to be.
But that individual fear shouldn't prevent humans from being free to naturally express, whether or not that means tinkering with biology using hormones or the extreme measure of removing the energetically main signal of maleness, the penis.
When I see how horrifically mean and unempathetic many TERFs and gender critics are, I wonder if we even deserve to win the ideological battle. It’s certainly no wonder that we’re not. I still think we can, though, as long as we foster more of the kind of mentality displayed in this piece.
Well put. I still struggle on how to approach the issue as gender critical leaning feminist. Any attempt to nuance the issue has me walking on eggshells in the leftist circles I used to frequent.
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