And who shall replace him?! Maybe if anyone else offered the insights he did, I’d maybe possibly potentially consider it. But let’s also not forget that 80 million people just voted for a felon, impeached, sexual abuser, etc. Destiny isn’t perfect, obviously, but I’ll take him over the other sides guys like Tim Pool (Kremlin stooge) or Tucker (White Nationalist) for instance.
Writers yes. Streamers not really. There are a few in his orbit that are good but I’m just saying Destiny is *really* good at his job and he’s genuinely interested in it. It’s not a cult when you will substantively criticize the persons ideas or actions— which I do. You can say you don’t like him, that’s fine. That doesn’t mean those who follow his political commentary are in a cult.
Just read. Seems to be the case there are a number of Destiny cult followers. But your underlying argument is “a leader who never admits or even experiences self-doubt can be purely captivating and inspiring at first, but inevitable cracks in the performance eventually lead to cognitive dissonance.” That’s not true of many watchers. Hopefully you’re helping someone though.
You don't have to be in a cult, man. There are plenty of people writing really insightful political commentary--you don't need it all to come from one person who rambles for 60 hours a week.
I don't know Patryk's feelings towards Destiny overall, but despite my disdain for Destiny, I agree with Patryk's statement in some capacity. It can be true for a person (especially a damaged/traumatized person, which, if you know Destiny's childhood, he definitely is, regardless of how he might repress/downplay sufficient acknowledgment of this. His fixation on sex stems from unprocessed maternal neglect, and so on...) to possess sporadically sadistic tendencies, without necessarily fitting the fuller profile of being a psychopath. I would say that a more accurate characterization of Destiny's psychological issues would fall under the umbrella of narcissism and trauma (it may seem counter-intuitive to laymen, but in actuality, a fundamental essence of narcissism is that it is marked by insecurity; the behavior is a form of overcompensation). To those who would excuse such tendencies based on ADHD, I'll add that, while Destiny does clinically have ADHD, and while it does affect certain things (like the pace at which he operates), it has little to do with a lot of his behavioral patterns and personality. The truth, which I suspect will be hard for a lot of his audience members to accept, is that Destiny is profoundly mentally ill. You probably don't see this yourself because you need to get out more.
Sorry, but there is zero chance Destiny is psychopathic, he's way too emotional and sensitive for that. And I absolutely refuse to believe that it's his "mask" to present himself to public that way. No way that is accurate.
Max you don’t know me but I feel like I know you well. I remember being in dgg learning about your mysterious character and then slowly watched the attention turn toward you as you became the #1 guest. Always appreciated your insight and unique approach to interpersonal relationships.
You speak in a language of emotional intelligence that, while obtuse at times, is honest and appreciated.
I’ve been a couple years removed from dgg but wanted to drop in here to say I appreciate your post and glad to see our paths cross digitally.
Hope you’re well man, and hope you’re always a pursuer of truth. Love you brother
Not to get into a big political discussion, but the basis of his framing of being an extremely intelligent person is essentially based in his use of hypotheticals on stream during discussions with people who are in no way experts. I'm sure with the level of practice he has doing this (8 hour streams daily for a decade) I think many people could achieve a similar aura of extreme intelligence.
But when it comes to politics, navigating hypotheticals is not the relevant consideration. Key policy tradeoffs with respect to important questions are almost never discussed on stream and never have been. The stark difference between his commentary and popular political writers is extreme and is surely the byproduct of a difference in time management (they spend hours daily researching and thinking about what they will write about, he spends hours daily talking to women and playing videogames). This difference cannot be overcome with pure intelligence. At even a rudimentary level, domain specific expertise and information provides much clearer answers to important political questions.
I listened to you speak with a few Destiny fans on a stream with JSTLK and after listening to that conversation and reading your article, this part really stuck out to me:
“And I don’t mean the DGG-approved criticisms, like “Destiny is a gooner,” “Destiny is a dumb fuck,” “Destiny is a degenerate.” I mean forbidden criticisms, like “Destiny is a liar,” “Destiny is manipulative,” “Destiny harms others.”
Those types of criticisms are really difficult for them to hold in their mind and they seem to experience a form of a reflexive gag effect if they hold ‘bad’ thoughts about Destiny for more than a second. Good read!
I think it could be helpful for people experiencing cognitive dissonance in relation to being in the cult to look to the start of Destiny's career. When he trying to make it in eSports and looking to make a career in streaming.
Back then he was not liked, largely seen as a wanna be, gross attention seeker. Someone who kissed ass to social climb. Destiny was most well known during his StarCraft 2 days to people outside that community as being a lolcow. Right from the start of his career he was a lolcow.
He's the same person now as he was then, just more experienced, with more money and petty power.
I have never understood how anyone has ever seen him as a rational or good faith actor. But I was first exposed to him as the lolcow of StarCraft. He's always been a lust demon.
I'm done watching his content. I've had cognitive dissonance about him for over a year now. I've consciously filed him as an immoral person but I've continued to watch his videos for their "value". When reading articles on my own is actually way quicker and healthier than listening to him regurgitate similar forms of shallow analysis. It goes in one ear and out the other until it's just noise. I can't even remember half of it.
DGG isnt the first(or second or third) cult I've been in. When you were calling it a cult when you left it became obvious to me because I had already done the research previously. I doubt DGG will be the last. The structure is just too compelling. I still feel a longing to be in another cult.
It's been a horrifying and fascinating ride watching destiny go from gross sex pest wanna be eSports guy, to try hard streamer social climber, to blood sports and then the political shift.
Destiny had worse scandals than most successfully cancelled streamers well over a decade ago, yet streamers, YouTubers, and even politicians have happily got on board with him. You were one of them.
It has been a great litmus test of moral character and credability for online spaces, who gets on board and how long they last.
I hope this does end up leading to career end for him but I doubt it. Beyond that I wouldn't be surprised if this starts to go into a more explicit Scientology direction, with the "success" too, sadly. I have little hope for holding to account when he can provide much to people happy to ignore things for what is provided.
Good luck and good speed the path you walk and person you become.
"Destiny had worse scandals than most successfully cancelled streamers well over a decade ago, yet streamers, YouTubers, and even politicians have happily got on board with him. You were one of them."
Yes. I ignored warning signs because I was making money and finding success (or so I thought).
As for why I didn't look into his past initially--I really don't know. I'm naive, and he just sounds like a reasonable person when you first talk to him. And then after our first talk, I started having reasons to not think about it.
But the idea that I quit my job to stream full-time without even googling Destiny is pretty insane.
While I have my reservations about you, when you and lav talked about being worse versions of yourself and tolerating stuff you normally wouldn't tolerate to be around him, was brave and admirable to admit to.
I don't like attributing anyone's tolerance, behaviours or what things they don't do when it comes to people and situations like destiny to money, success or naivety as these are the exact things we are warned about all through childhood and things parables teach us about. So while I think it plays a part, it minimizes the uglier reality, desire, desire for many contracting things along with an acceptance and willingness to lie to oneself and "forget".
Do you wanna have an interesting popular friend? Of course, well there are rumours about them, or some people saying weird stuff. Do you want to go really dig into that or forget, too busy, if it was a big deal it would be more well known. Small lies to ourselves, it's not worth it, it doesn't matter, I will deal with it later, to lead us to the outcomes we want. An interesting friend and fun times.
Destiny shapes his environment to be fertile to the outcomes he seeks. This isn't the problem, we all do this to differing degrees, we ignore some stuff, put various signals out and pressures on the people around us just by inadvertent action, and what it gets us, is what we actually desire, if we can admit it to ourselves or not.
I wanted to believe that I had stumbled upon a world where people were rational, open-minded, and appreciated me and my work. And maybe most of all, where they trusted me. I've always wanted that.
This is understandable, I think we all want this. But what wer have is "real life" and that is what is real, everywhere. Sadly this a big part in what all cults prey on.
A fantasy escape from who we actually are, and what we foster in others and ourselves.
"What he did was really bad. But he's also really important as the world disintegrates into a fascist takeover."
I really have to disagree here. I know he seems really important to you, but I don't think making the other side look stupid really does much to stop fascism, although it may feel good.
Destiny also doesn't have any morals or conscientiousness about how he wields his power.
I mean, just re-read your comment through the lens of my essay. Destiny sexually abused people, BUT... he's really important. Do you see how you have taken on his grandiosity there and are using it to excuse his behavior?
It's good you can identify that you're using his content like a drug, but the idea that it's world-changing beyond his cult bubble is part of the fantasy that makes it a drug.
And who shall replace him?! Maybe if anyone else offered the insights he did, I’d maybe possibly potentially consider it. But let’s also not forget that 80 million people just voted for a felon, impeached, sexual abuser, etc. Destiny isn’t perfect, obviously, but I’ll take him over the other sides guys like Tim Pool (Kremlin stooge) or Tucker (White Nationalist) for instance.
Writers yes. Streamers not really. There are a few in his orbit that are good but I’m just saying Destiny is *really* good at his job and he’s genuinely interested in it. It’s not a cult when you will substantively criticize the persons ideas or actions— which I do. You can say you don’t like him, that’s fine. That doesn’t mean those who follow his political commentary are in a cult.
I've written an entire essay about why I think you're in a cult, and it's not because I don't like Destiny.
Just read. Seems to be the case there are a number of Destiny cult followers. But your underlying argument is “a leader who never admits or even experiences self-doubt can be purely captivating and inspiring at first, but inevitable cracks in the performance eventually lead to cognitive dissonance.” That’s not true of many watchers. Hopefully you’re helping someone though.
You don't have to be in a cult, man. There are plenty of people writing really insightful political commentary--you don't need it all to come from one person who rambles for 60 hours a week.
No one should replace him.
I don't know Patryk's feelings towards Destiny overall, but despite my disdain for Destiny, I agree with Patryk's statement in some capacity. It can be true for a person (especially a damaged/traumatized person, which, if you know Destiny's childhood, he definitely is, regardless of how he might repress/downplay sufficient acknowledgment of this. His fixation on sex stems from unprocessed maternal neglect, and so on...) to possess sporadically sadistic tendencies, without necessarily fitting the fuller profile of being a psychopath. I would say that a more accurate characterization of Destiny's psychological issues would fall under the umbrella of narcissism and trauma (it may seem counter-intuitive to laymen, but in actuality, a fundamental essence of narcissism is that it is marked by insecurity; the behavior is a form of overcompensation). To those who would excuse such tendencies based on ADHD, I'll add that, while Destiny does clinically have ADHD, and while it does affect certain things (like the pace at which he operates), it has little to do with a lot of his behavioral patterns and personality. The truth, which I suspect will be hard for a lot of his audience members to accept, is that Destiny is profoundly mentally ill. You probably don't see this yourself because you need to get out more.
Sorry, but there is zero chance Destiny is psychopathic, he's way too emotional and sensitive for that. And I absolutely refuse to believe that it's his "mask" to present himself to public that way. No way that is accurate.
Max you don’t know me but I feel like I know you well. I remember being in dgg learning about your mysterious character and then slowly watched the attention turn toward you as you became the #1 guest. Always appreciated your insight and unique approach to interpersonal relationships.
You speak in a language of emotional intelligence that, while obtuse at times, is honest and appreciated.
I’ve been a couple years removed from dgg but wanted to drop in here to say I appreciate your post and glad to see our paths cross digitally.
Hope you’re well man, and hope you’re always a pursuer of truth. Love you brother
Not to get into a big political discussion, but the basis of his framing of being an extremely intelligent person is essentially based in his use of hypotheticals on stream during discussions with people who are in no way experts. I'm sure with the level of practice he has doing this (8 hour streams daily for a decade) I think many people could achieve a similar aura of extreme intelligence.
But when it comes to politics, navigating hypotheticals is not the relevant consideration. Key policy tradeoffs with respect to important questions are almost never discussed on stream and never have been. The stark difference between his commentary and popular political writers is extreme and is surely the byproduct of a difference in time management (they spend hours daily researching and thinking about what they will write about, he spends hours daily talking to women and playing videogames). This difference cannot be overcome with pure intelligence. At even a rudimentary level, domain specific expertise and information provides much clearer answers to important political questions.
TL;DR don't get your opinions from streamers.
I listened to you speak with a few Destiny fans on a stream with JSTLK and after listening to that conversation and reading your article, this part really stuck out to me:
“And I don’t mean the DGG-approved criticisms, like “Destiny is a gooner,” “Destiny is a dumb fuck,” “Destiny is a degenerate.” I mean forbidden criticisms, like “Destiny is a liar,” “Destiny is manipulative,” “Destiny harms others.”
Those types of criticisms are really difficult for them to hold in their mind and they seem to experience a form of a reflexive gag effect if they hold ‘bad’ thoughts about Destiny for more than a second. Good read!
Actually want to add one thing.
I think it could be helpful for people experiencing cognitive dissonance in relation to being in the cult to look to the start of Destiny's career. When he trying to make it in eSports and looking to make a career in streaming.
Back then he was not liked, largely seen as a wanna be, gross attention seeker. Someone who kissed ass to social climb. Destiny was most well known during his StarCraft 2 days to people outside that community as being a lolcow. Right from the start of his career he was a lolcow.
He's the same person now as he was then, just more experienced, with more money and petty power.
I have never understood how anyone has ever seen him as a rational or good faith actor. But I was first exposed to him as the lolcow of StarCraft. He's always been a lust demon.
I'm done watching his content. I've had cognitive dissonance about him for over a year now. I've consciously filed him as an immoral person but I've continued to watch his videos for their "value". When reading articles on my own is actually way quicker and healthier than listening to him regurgitate similar forms of shallow analysis. It goes in one ear and out the other until it's just noise. I can't even remember half of it.
Valuable life lesson - we can all be hoodwinked and fooled, especially by those we love or admire.
Beware the part of our brain that seeks to conserve energy by not re-assessing our fundamental beliefs!
The good news is this - once you've experienced and seen through it one time, it's a lot harder to fall into again.
Of course we all have to be aware of the other side as well - our own capacity to be the manipulative asshole if life gives us the opportunity.
I'm going to be very upset if this happens to me again.
DGG isnt the first(or second or third) cult I've been in. When you were calling it a cult when you left it became obvious to me because I had already done the research previously. I doubt DGG will be the last. The structure is just too compelling. I still feel a longing to be in another cult.
Solid read.
It's been a horrifying and fascinating ride watching destiny go from gross sex pest wanna be eSports guy, to try hard streamer social climber, to blood sports and then the political shift.
Destiny had worse scandals than most successfully cancelled streamers well over a decade ago, yet streamers, YouTubers, and even politicians have happily got on board with him. You were one of them.
It has been a great litmus test of moral character and credability for online spaces, who gets on board and how long they last.
I hope this does end up leading to career end for him but I doubt it. Beyond that I wouldn't be surprised if this starts to go into a more explicit Scientology direction, with the "success" too, sadly. I have little hope for holding to account when he can provide much to people happy to ignore things for what is provided.
Good luck and good speed the path you walk and person you become.
"Destiny had worse scandals than most successfully cancelled streamers well over a decade ago, yet streamers, YouTubers, and even politicians have happily got on board with him. You were one of them."
Yes. I ignored warning signs because I was making money and finding success (or so I thought).
As for why I didn't look into his past initially--I really don't know. I'm naive, and he just sounds like a reasonable person when you first talk to him. And then after our first talk, I started having reasons to not think about it.
But the idea that I quit my job to stream full-time without even googling Destiny is pretty insane.
While I have my reservations about you, when you and lav talked about being worse versions of yourself and tolerating stuff you normally wouldn't tolerate to be around him, was brave and admirable to admit to.
I don't like attributing anyone's tolerance, behaviours or what things they don't do when it comes to people and situations like destiny to money, success or naivety as these are the exact things we are warned about all through childhood and things parables teach us about. So while I think it plays a part, it minimizes the uglier reality, desire, desire for many contracting things along with an acceptance and willingness to lie to oneself and "forget".
Do you wanna have an interesting popular friend? Of course, well there are rumours about them, or some people saying weird stuff. Do you want to go really dig into that or forget, too busy, if it was a big deal it would be more well known. Small lies to ourselves, it's not worth it, it doesn't matter, I will deal with it later, to lead us to the outcomes we want. An interesting friend and fun times.
Destiny shapes his environment to be fertile to the outcomes he seeks. This isn't the problem, we all do this to differing degrees, we ignore some stuff, put various signals out and pressures on the people around us just by inadvertent action, and what it gets us, is what we actually desire, if we can admit it to ourselves or not.
I wanted to believe that I had stumbled upon a world where people were rational, open-minded, and appreciated me and my work. And maybe most of all, where they trusted me. I've always wanted that.
This is understandable, I think we all want this. But what wer have is "real life" and that is what is real, everywhere. Sadly this a big part in what all cults prey on.
A fantasy escape from who we actually are, and what we foster in others and ourselves.
"What he did was really bad. But he's also really important as the world disintegrates into a fascist takeover."
I really have to disagree here. I know he seems really important to you, but I don't think making the other side look stupid really does much to stop fascism, although it may feel good.
Destiny also doesn't have any morals or conscientiousness about how he wields his power.
I mean, just re-read your comment through the lens of my essay. Destiny sexually abused people, BUT... he's really important. Do you see how you have taken on his grandiosity there and are using it to excuse his behavior?
It's good you can identify that you're using his content like a drug, but the idea that it's world-changing beyond his cult bubble is part of the fantasy that makes it a drug.